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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Niaski Zalani
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.02.09 20:39:00 -
[1]
Oh, that's just great.
So first there's an attempt to sweep it under the rug, and a lot of denials. Then you ban K.'s accounts, for no real reason.
And now you're telling everyone that yes, there's truth behind it?
Bloody hell. Are you going to be re-instating those 7 accounts you banned? Because frankly, the guy deserves having his accounts back.
yarr. |
Niaski Zalani
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.02.09 20:44:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Nullity
Originally by: Niaski Zalani
Oh, that's just great.
So first there's an attempt to sweep it under the rug, and a lot of denials. Then you ban K.'s accounts, for no real reason.
And now you're telling everyone that yes, there's truth behind it?
Bloody hell. Are you going to be re-instating those 7 accounts you banned? Because frankly, the guy deserves having his accounts back.
Even if there wasn't any truth behind it, I don't get why CCP would ban somebody for out-of-game actions. If anything, doing that will be
bad for CCP in the long run.
Well, I can see why they might've banned him, it's natural to try and protect one's interests, but a) he didn't do anything that other players in EVE haven't done before (and they're still around) and b) he was right whilst BoB -and- CCP claimed he wasn't.
He deserves to be unbanned. That might just restore my faith in CCP, because right now the faith-o-meter is hitting rock bottom and breaking out the jackhammer to dig deeper.
yarr. |
Niaski Zalani
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.02.09 20:59:00 -
[3]
Originally by: ZaKma
While t20 did something he shouldn't have done, I really hope he doesn't get fired. He's been with the community for a long time.
It's not like the BPO's made some huge difference in terms of isk or advantage or anything. It's wrong of course, but nothing staggering.
As from the blog:
Quote:
... and the non-negotiable penalty of employment termination upon conviction of such acts ...
Non-negotiable. Sorry to see someone lose their job, but t20 should be out on his ass.
yarr. |
Niaski Zalani
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:09:00 -
[4]
I'll let my sig speak for itself.
...Free Kugutsumen... |
Niaski Zalani
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:24:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Milena Marich
Referee's don't play on a football team. Referee's don't play on a football team. How hard is to understand that?
Check this out:
Link removed as content is against the EVE Forum Rules - Serathu ([email protected])
It just gets bigger and bigger.
The content that is against the EVE forum rules just happened to be the reason that this whole mess got uncovered. So why is that content against the rules anyway? Because if we're going to go that way, you might as well make links to the gaming sites and slashdot that carried the news about this whole dev-induced mess "against the rules" as well.
Seems CCP's endeavour in China has taught them the art of censorship.
...Free Kugutsumen... |
Niaski Zalani
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:32:00 -
[6]
Heck, I'm a sysadmin in real life. If I were to put my own server in a rack, and avoid the billing system by not putting it in, and keeping people in the dark about what that box is for, even if it doesn't cost all that much, I still get fired on the spot if anyone would find out.
So yeah, sorry to see someone lose their job, but as Hellmar stated in his blog, the firing is non-negotiable. So it's exit t20. It's the only way to go, if t20 gets to stay, it just shows that there's no real intent at CCP to follow their own rules.
Which would lead, undoubtedly, to an even bigger *snip*.
Please don't avoid the profanity filter - Serathu ([email protected])
...Free Kugutsumen... |
Niaski Zalani
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2007.02.09 21:42:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Ordo Lucius
It is a ******* GAME!!!
To call for someone to lose thier JOB (you know, the think us normal people have?) over some bloody blueprints (i dont give a **** how much they were worth) is absolutely insane. They guy messed with policy, "misconduct" blah blah, but lets face facts, who the hell got hurt by this in real life? Anyone?
It's not about the BPO's as in their value. It's in the inherent trust we, as players, place in CCP to provide for us a game that we enjoy. We pay CCP for that. If CCP then turns around and breaks the trust, that pretty much comes down to us players being scammed by the very entity we pay a monthly fee.
I don't know where you're from, but I doubt you enjoy paying $15 every month to someone who might, or might not, scam you. When the trust is gone, there's something seriously wrong.
CCP needs to tread very carefully right now.
...Free Kugutsumen... |
Niaski Zalani
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:46:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Great Guardian
One of my bigger concerns in this is why *exactly* was Kugutsumen banned from the game? Why is the whistle blower the one taking the fall here? Even if the information was "ill gotten"?
None of us would have known about this if not for KUGUTSUMEN!!!
/cheers
GG
He actually got banned due to this fun clause in the EULA that pretty much boils down to "you can be banned for whatever reason, without explanation, at any time" -- the real reason, in my opinion, is quite obvious.
I'll just restate: Free Kugutsumen. Unban his accounts. No need to apologise to him, but just unbanning him would go a long way to showing that CCP as an entity does actually still deserve our trust and sympathy.
...Free Kugutsumen... |
Niaski Zalani
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:51:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Lucre
Whoa - just realised something.
CCP knew about this last June. Okay, so they decided not to sack T20 on the spot which is almost certainly the wrong decision looking from outside but leave that aside for a moment.
If I read this correctly, CCP knew those bpo's were fraudulently obtained but LEFT THEM IN THE GAME UNTIL NOW?
I'd actually love to know the reason why that decision was made. The dev blog wasn't exactly clear on that. It might help if the reasoning behind this decision were also posted.
We don't need to know the nitty gritty, just the "why".
...Free Kugutsumen... |
Niaski Zalani
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:52:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Sinlare
I certainly wont ever trust your company, supporting illegal actions. succes ermee.
I wouldn't want you as a customer anyway :) De mazzel!
...Free Kugutsumen... |
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Niaski Zalani
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.02.09 22:31:00 -
[11]
Originally by: gordon cain
Anyone have an external link or anything to the original thread from Kugutsumen or can anyone fill me in plz.
On topic:
Sad day, not enough concequence. I have been a victim of this coverup thing myself back with the drone bug. I learned it doesnt matter really in the end cause they just stop it and remove it if needed.
There should be no differences between if you come from a well known alliance or a noob corp.
All equal!
Gordon
I'd link one, but it'd get removed seeing as how it's apparently against the forum rules. However, if you take the guy's name, and add the most common domain name extension to it, you might get what you want.
(I guess playing hints would be against forum rules too...)
...Free Kugutsumen... |
Niaski Zalani
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.02.09 23:03:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Sinlare
Yes, unban a blackmailing hacker! lol, sad person.
You do have this insane fascination with the zOmg evil blackmailing hacker thing don't you?
...Free Kugutsumen... |
Niaski Zalani
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.02.09 23:10:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Qual
Originally by: mazzilliu
Edited by: mazzilliu on 09/02/2007 20:34:13
:whoah:
any chance of unbanning kugutsumen then? :/
Hell no!
Mind you he is NO hero. He is a hacker. And a pretty nasty one. He has broken into more than just web sites. He has hacked actual player accounts. Thats a CLEAR ban. NO discussion.
And you know that how?
...Free Kugutsumen... |
Niaski Zalani
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.02.09 23:43:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Athelas Loraiel
Originally by: Blacklight
Very very difficult to post in this thread from my point of view. Not because I feel either myself or my mates that I play Eve with are cheats but because one man, an employee of CCP no less has let us all down, most of all he's let all of BoB down.
We play hard but I firmly believe we play fair and to have the rug pulled out from beneath us like this is a very bitter pill to swallow.
I'll blog about the issue from my perspective when I am done moving house and stuff so could be a week or so.
Not much more I can say really except that I am sickened and saddened to learn that a CCP employee in my alliance cheated.
Can someone link him the PMs from Kugutsmans Blog where it's obvious THEY KNEW ??
Register on his site. It'll be there :) I can't link it since it's against the forum rules (*sigh*)
...Free Kugutsumen... |
Niaski Zalani
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2007.02.09 23:57:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Qual
Originally by: Niaski Zalani
Register on his site. It'll be there :) I can't link it since it's against the forum rules (*sigh*)
Why do you think you ahev to REGISTER to get this info from this HACKER?
Engage brains please...
Seeing as how I'm the one that hosts his site, my brain has been engaged all the way, thank you very much.
Not all of it is public, and one has to register in order to view the more interesting things.
If you're scared we'll steelz your eye peez, don't worry. Every web server does. Every forum does. Your eye peez are already public knowledge.
If you're afraid your e-mail account will get hacked, might I suggest you create a free e-mail account somewhere. And by all means, put a unique password on it. Not the same password you use for all your accounts.
It's actually quite safe.
...Free Kugutsumen... |
Niaski Zalani
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2007.02.10 01:53:00 -
[16]
In response to the dev response (heh), and responding to kieron directly:
Quote:
We did not take action against anyone for 'exposing dev corruption' or bringing this to light. Due to our policy of not disclosing actions taken against a player with a third party, I cannot go into specifics. However, I can say that there were EULA and Terms of Service violations sufficient to justify our response.
Please inform us of which EULA/TOS rules were broken. Seeing as there's this whole clause in your EULA that states that you can ban anyone at any time for no reason whatsoever, I hope there are actual EULA violations, and not just that this "we can do whatever" clause was used.
I, personally, still think that he should either be unbanned, or his perma-ban be turned into a timed ban. EULA or TOS violations or not, if it wasn't for him, I don't think you guys would've mentioned anything about t20's little "misstep".
And that, to be honest, is disappointing. Suppose he would've gone straight to CCP with his information, would you have investigated that? And publish the fact that you did an investigation because allegations were raised?
Frankly I doubt that at this point in time. If one has information from 6 months ago that indicates misconduct, and also indicates that it's highly likely CCP management found out about said misconduct, but has not informed the community, I'd seriously doubt that going straight to CCP would have resulted in any effect.
The community, us, the people that make sure you guys have a paycheck, deserve the right to be informed about misconduct by developers, GM's, or ISD staff. We do not pay $15 every month to be treated like children, nor do we pay $15 a month for a game where we can no longer be sure of who is telling the truth.
Besides, I do have knowledge that CCP, or rather, you, kieron, decided you had nothing to discuss with Kugutsumen unless he would close the site to the public. Which he did. Which still resulted in a ban afterwards. If you were to look at that from an outside perspective, that sounds a lot like damage control.
I'll most likely keep playing EVE, even though my trust in CCP as a company has pretty much hit rock-bottom at this point, and only because there is no comparable game out there -- I think that sentiment can be found throughout your customer base at this moment. Realise that this is not just a case of "oh, it'll go away" -- it won't. You, as a company (by the actions of a dev and by your own actions in handling this case), have broken the trust between you and us, the players. You will now have to regain that trust, something that is infinitely harder than losing it.
*steps off soapbox*
...Free Kugutsumen... |
Niaski Zalani
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2007.02.10 02:02:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Archbishop
- Kugsman or whatever his name is did apparently hack an outside forum. If BOB wants to prosecute him for that they can. The EULA does specify "you will not break local laws" to affect the game. Although he revealed this incident to us he did break the EULA and his banning is justified (if very unpopular).
Where Kugutsumen lives, there is no law against it. If there is no law, he can't break it. Invalid reason for banning, in that case.
Please see the Forum Rules regarding signatures -Eldo ([email protected]) |
Niaski Zalani
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2007.02.10 02:14:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Kerushi
Originally by: Niaski Zalani
Originally by: Archbishop
- Kugsman or whatever his name is did apparently hack an outside forum. If BOB wants to prosecute him for that they can. The EULA does specify "you will not break local laws" to affect the game. Although he revealed this incident to us he did break the EULA and his banning is justified (if very unpopular).
Where Kugutsumen lives, there is no law against it. If there is no law, he can't break it. Invalid reason for banning, in that case.
it is with the eula he agrees with every time he logson on wich u can be banned
If the EULA states that you shall not break local laws, and there is no local law, then by reasoning it stands that the local law cannot be broken. Point moot.
The only thing I could find in the EULA that could explain his banning was the whole "we reserve the right to ban anyone, at anytime, for no reason given" clause.
If there were other violations, why did it take a few days between the delivering-of-information to the actual bannings? He violated the EULA/TOS didn't he, that means he should've been banned immediately, not 3 or 4 days later.
If his only EULA/TOS violation was the posting of real-life information, then SirMolle should be out on his ass as well, since he did post Kugutsumen's personal information, only to quickly edit it a bit later. But it was up long enough for people to see.
So if Kugutsumen stays banned, SirMolle should be banned as well.
Please see the Forum Rules regarding signatures -Eldo ([email protected])
The content was EVE related, thank you.
[cent |
Niaski Zalani
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2007.02.10 12:32:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Sinlare
Originally by: KiLLaH KLoWN
I see the BoB alts are filtering in finally 
Yes, people that can actually reason must be bob alts. I wonder how many of you will go to the fanfest and have the balls to actually stand up to the developers, instead of pretending to be all that behind your computerscreen.
Funny how you seem to only come out when the BoB alts come out...
*snipped* signature for discussing moderation - Karass Sayfo |
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